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faerilycrafty
05-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Is anyone on here unschooling? We just started and I would like to get together with parents who are unschooling as well, just to chat about it. Interested? Respond here or PM me. :)

dragonfly76
05-12-2011, 01:04 PM
we do. my ds is 8.5 and has never gone to school. we've always found 'child-led' and 'unschooling' worked best for us!

i think it would be great to get together!

Emilysofiasmom
05-12-2011, 02:39 PM
stupid question again... sry!!


is "unschooling" the same as "home schooling"?

dragonfly76
05-12-2011, 06:18 PM
yes and no.

'homeschooling' is usually the term given to families who use some form of structure and curriculum, where the parent is also teacher and there is structured 'school' time during the day. it is also an umbrella term used by and about families who choose to provide an education for their children at home.

'unshooling' though, is basically completely child-led. while most homeschooling families work with their children to find what works best, an unschooling family leaves the child in complete charge of their education. the child is the one deciding what, where, when and how the learning happens. so, there would be no structure or workbooks or textbooks unless the child asked for them. generally in unschooling families parents are 'facilitators' instead of 'teachers' in that they follow their children's cues and help as needed with answering questions, providing books or videos, helping the child find a mentor or class, etc...

knhoward
05-12-2011, 06:25 PM
yes and no.

'homeschooling' is usually the term given to families who use some form of structure and curriculum, where the parent is also teacher and there is structured 'school' time during the day. it is also an umbrella term used by and about families who choose to provide an education for their children at home.

'unshooling' though, is basically completely child-led. while most homeschooling families work with their children to find what works best, an unschooling family leaves the child in complete charge of their education. the child is the one deciding what, where, when and how the learning happens. so, there would be no structure or workbooks or textbooks unless the child asked for them. generally in unschooling families parents are 'facilitators' instead of 'teachers' in that they follow their children's cues and help as needed with answering questions, providing books or videos, helping the child find a mentor or class, etc...

Christina - I'm just wondering, how do unschooling families tackle things that children must know but aren't necessarily interested in. I can't think of an example specifically, but there are some things in a more formal curriculum that a child must know but aren't necessarily all that interesting.

dragonfly76
05-12-2011, 06:34 PM
i can only answer for my own family, but to be honest i've never really come across anything that a child 'must' know in order to function that they don't pick up or learn in some way, even if it's not interesting to them.

the example in my house would be math. ds hates it. so instead of me sitting him down and teaching him formally, i bring him to the grocery store, i give him an allowance, i play board/card games he's interested in (monopoly, sorry, war, yahtzee etc), we bake and cook... focusing more on the real life applications than formal sit down busywork...

i guess my point is really, that since children are learning all the time, they will learn everything they 'have' to learn in order to function in life.

and if, for whatever reason they decide on a certain career that needs some subject they are less than fond of they will learn that subject if that is a career they want. my ds wants to be a paleontologist, and he'll need math in that career. i think it would be better in the long run for him to learn it when it's important for him rather than me forcing it on him now.

hope that makes sense...

knhoward
05-12-2011, 06:43 PM
Thanks for answering that - I was actually kind of thinking of math in my head (I have a math degree)

I know there are many opportunities to do practical math (like counting change, dividing food up into servings etc) but there are also many things that just don't come up in day to day life.

Emilysofiasmom
05-12-2011, 06:44 PM
i'm really curious about homeschooling/unschooling... do you know what happens if they want t apply to college? do they have to take all the "college prep" courses (math, english, bio, etc?) to get into programs? I know i am getting a little bit ahead of things (dd is 1 =p) but seeing as how i effed up highschool by taking the "wrong" courses, its something that you have to think about years in advance

jennt
05-12-2011, 06:46 PM
Thanks for answering that - I was actually kind of thinking of math in my head (I have a math degree)

I know there are many opportunities to do practical math (like counting change, dividing food up into servings etc) but there are also many things that just don't come up in day to day life.

The things that I was taught in school (all of the highschool math for example) have never been applicable to my life. Oh what brain cells I wasted on Shakespear!

knhoward
05-12-2011, 06:50 PM
The things that I was taught in school (all of the highschool math for example) have never been applicable to my life. Oh what brain cells I wasted on Shakespear!

LOL! It all depends what career you choose right? I've used a lot of my high school math in my career. But I can't really say I've used any of the science stuff i've learned. Exposure to many things is useful though, because you can get an idea of what you like and don't like.

dubhreubel
05-12-2011, 06:57 PM
i'm really curious about homeschooling/unschooling... do you know what happens if they want t apply to college? do they have to take all the "college prep" courses (math, english, bio, etc?) to get into programs? I know i am getting a little bit ahead of things (dd is 1 =p) but seeing as how i effed up highschool by taking the "wrong" courses, its something that you have to think about years in advance

I think lots of homeschoooled kids take their GED test to prpve their capabilities to a college/university

jennt
05-12-2011, 07:09 PM
LOL! It all depends what career you choose right? I've used a lot of my high school math in my career. But I can't really say I've used any of the science stuff i've learned. Exposure to many things is useful though, because you can get an idea of what you like and don't like.

Thats what they kept telling me. I definitely knew what I didn't like!

dragonfly76
05-12-2011, 11:37 PM
Exposure to many things is useful though, because you can get an idea of what you like and don't like.

it's interesting that you say that.

it's hard to even descibe the amount of things my ds is exposed to. even if you take in just the 2010/11 school year, my ds has looked into dozens of topics that have struck his interest... some have kept that interest, and some he found out he didn't like, or they were just a passing interest. many would not have been available to him had he been in a grade 3 classroom... (we studied high school level chemistry for a couple of weeks, and spent some time in ancient greece...)

with my ds left to own own devices he has been able to find out what he likes and doesn't like. the only difference is that he is free to leave the things he doesn't like and come back to them later if he finds he needs or wants to.

dragonfly76
05-12-2011, 11:40 PM
i'm really curious about homeschooling/unschooling... do you know what happens if they want t apply to college? do they have to take all the "college prep" courses (math, english, bio, etc?) to get into programs? I know i am getting a little bit ahead of things (dd is 1 =p) but seeing as how i effed up highschool by taking the "wrong" courses, its something that you have to think about years in advance

it really depends on the school. each one has different requirements.

our plan is, once ds reaches grade 8 or 9 age, is to look into the schools that offer what he wants and find out their requirements and go from there.

teacher_mom
08-30-2011, 02:52 PM
i'm really curious about homeschooling/unschooling... do you know what happens if they want t apply to college? do they have to take all the "college prep" courses (math, english, bio, etc?) to get into programs? I know i am getting a little bit ahead of things (dd is 1 =p) but seeing as how i effed up highschool by taking the "wrong" courses, its something that you have to think about years in advance

As someone who teaches high school math. A lot of home school kids take grade 12 courses (or 11 and 12) to get the prerequisites to apply to specific university programs and take a GED to satisfy the diploma requirement. Some do this by taking a year of school. Some do night and summer school. Some do distance education courses.

Karen
08-30-2011, 04:52 PM
You can find out lots of information about homeschooling and university admissions at Sarah Rainsberger's site.

http://www.rainsberger.ca/blog/home-school-through-high-school/

hth
Karen

dragonfly76
08-30-2011, 05:52 PM
You can find out lots of information about homeschooling and university admissions at Sarah Rainsberger's site.

http://www.rainsberger.ca/blog/home-school-through-high-school/

hth
Karen

thanks for that!!! ds has a few years to go yet (he's only grade 4 age right now) but it never hurts to read ahead!!!

tinkandnuggetsmom
08-30-2011, 08:07 PM
I mean this in no offensive way but this is the silliest thing I have ever heard,, But at the same time I am very interested by it..

Im glad you have found something that works for you guys :)

dragonfly76
08-31-2011, 12:11 AM
I mean this in no offensive way but this is the silliest thing I have ever heard,, But at the same time I am very interested by it..

Im glad you have found something that works for you guys :)

no offence taken, lol... i used to think it was a pretty silly idea too, years ago... i never thought for one moment we'd end up being 'unschoolers'... seeing it in action though... wow...

Karen
08-31-2011, 02:51 AM
I mean this in no offensive way but this is the silliest thing I have ever heard,, But at the same time I am very interested by it..

Im glad you have found something that works for you guys :)

Why do you think it is silly?

If you really think about it, unschooling is how children learn naturally. Ever encountered a 4 year old passionate about trains, bugs, horses, dinosaurs etc that knew more than you did? That's unschooling in action. Humans do much of their most fantastic learning before they reach school age. It's amazing to me that suddenly at the age of 5 we think their learning will stop or not be "right" if we don't send them off to school to learn what everyone else is learning. Think about your own education inside and outside of school. Where do you get the knowledge you truly own? That you have truly integrated? For the vast majority of humans it comes from exploring a passion, or because it was transmitted by someone we are deeply connected with, or because we lived it - were immersed in it.

I wrote a bit about my 13 year old son who is essentially unschooled in this thread.
http://forum.waterloo-moms.ca/showthread.php?p=91438#post91438

Right now as we speak he's reading about civil wars as research for his novel and we just had an interesting conversation about whether the Arab Spring constitutes civil wars, revolutions or coups. He's emailed a history professor friend of ours to see if there is some sort of official distinction. He's pulled out all our history encyclopedias, is searching online and making notes. I am willing to bet he'll be at the library tomorrow when the doors open.

Earlier today he was touring some English relatives around Crawford Lake (where we have been many times - I didn't go today though) and tonight they commented that they found his depth of knowledge and ability to make connections between topics fascinating.

I guess I do find it somewhat disheartening that someone would call his style of learning, and in fact his entire approach to eduation silly. :confused:

If you want to learn more I'd start with Dumbing us Down by John Taylor Gatto who was New York City Teacher of the Year in 1989, 1990, and 1991, and New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991. His acceptance speech can be read online. It's called Why Schools Don't Educate (http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html)
You can read more about him and his writings here (http://selfmadescholar.com/b/2009/03/31/great-thinkers-on-self-education-john-taylor-gatto/)

Be prepared however. It might just blow your mind. :D
I know it did mine.

Karen
08-31-2011, 02:53 AM
thanks for that!!! ds has a few years to go yet (he's only grade 4 age right now) but it never hurts to read ahead!!!

Sarah will sometimes speak at conferences. She's done KWCHEA in the past and OFTP. She came to our local homeschool group one year.
She's completely inspiring and absolutely worth making the effort to see if you can.
I was blown away by the options and felt so much more confident about our options after hearing her.
Hope you find some valueable stuff in there.
Karen

dragonfly76
08-31-2011, 11:56 AM
Why do you think it is silly?

maybe it has something to do with going through the school system?

i know that's why i thought it was silly, way back when... the thought that children could learn without being taught simply didn't make sense to me. i had been conditioned for years to believe that children need teachers to tell them what they should learn...

even when i started researching homeschooling (when i was pregnant, lol) i still thought that i would be doing the 'teaching'.

then ds showed me just how much he learned without me doing anything... totally blew my ideas about education and learning out of the water, and really forced me to question everything i'd been taught.

unschooling in action is absolutely amazing! i am thankful every day that we ended up on this path!

bratt
08-31-2011, 12:11 PM
What I've seen from unschooling has always been kids running around wild, and just chaos. But the more I've been reading here, the more interesting it sounds.
I still think I'll be sending DD to school, but if that doesn't work for some reason, this sounds very interesting for sure.
I'm going to keep reading this thread.

Shiraz
08-31-2011, 02:21 PM
maybe it has something to do with going through the school system?


I think you have touched on an important point here. It seems to me that we have become conditioned to see learning as structured and limited to school.

It's only recently that parents, educators, and policymakers see playing as a form of learning. Yet, we continue to force-feed information to students and use tests as a way to measure their learning. This has only created generations of students who are proficient at test-taking and memorization.

Learning is natural and if it presents itself as chaotic to parents, that is just our impression. Children are not small adults who have to be reigned in. They are unique in their view of the world, and we should foster their uniqueness, not try to drill it out of them by chaining them to desk for hours each day.

Karen
08-31-2011, 02:50 PM
maybe it has something to do with going through the school system?

i know that's why i thought it was silly, way back when... the thought that children could learn without being taught simply didn't make sense to me. i had been conditioned for years to believe that children need teachers to tell them what they should learn...

even when i started researching homeschooling (when i was pregnant, lol) i still thought that i would be doing the 'teaching'.

then ds showed me just how much he learned without me doing anything... totally blew my ideas about education and learning out of the water, and really forced me to question everything i'd been taught.

unschooling in action is absolutely amazing! i am thankful every day that we ended up on this path!

LOL you are right.
I have been doing this so long and my community is so immersed in the "alternative" with respect to education (and a whole host of other things - lol), that I can forget exactly how startling the notion of self-directed education for children can be.
My husband always jokes with me that I live in a bubble - and I admit I do.

Karen
08-31-2011, 02:58 PM
What I've seen from unschooling has always been kids running around wild, and just chaos. But the more I've been reading here, the more interesting it sounds.
I still think I'll be sending DD to school, but if that doesn't work for some reason, this sounds very interesting for sure.
I'm going to keep reading this thread.

There can definitely be some of that - absolutely - and it can be unfortunate. We tend to stay away from families who behave that way consistently.
Unschooling is a spectrum and there are some families who self identify as Radical Unschoolers who take the ideas of self directed learning and apply them to all areas of life. It works really well for some - but I'm not so sure it works for all. So much depends on the parents, the kids, their relationship.

We don't identify as unschoolers in general. ANd while I love watching my oldest immerse himself in his learning, I do have expectations for him around his education which spill over into expectations around family life and living in community respectfully. I do believe in the value of parental guidance and firm nudges when needed and that pretty much disqualifies me from the unschooling definition.
But I can see how it could work beautifully and I would love to see schools move more towards independent learning models.

mom2girls
08-31-2011, 04:10 PM
I think that sometimes people associate unschooling not only with not educating in a structured way, but also with a lack of "parenting" in general

Bronwynr
08-31-2011, 05:05 PM
There is an article in the Record about this:

http://www.therecord.com/living/article/586033--parents-who-unschool-put-their-children-in-the-teacher-s-chair

Thought it was timely to this thread :)

3little1s
09-01-2011, 03:54 AM
until this thread....I never even knew there was such a thing as "unschooling"

I send my kids to school for their structured learning, then when they are home and asking a hundred questions a day....its my job as a parent to educate them and answer their questions.

I do this i guess in an unschooled kind of way, i will answer their question, and encourage them to also look up more on the subject....thank god for smart phones, internet where ever we are!

some questions get a quick answer while others turn into a day long lesson....the most recent example is the question from my ds 10 "mom, whats the difference between debit and credit cards, they look the same?"
this was the perfect opportunity for my to teach "responsible" spending and money management ds 10 ate it all up!

dragonfly76
09-01-2011, 12:20 PM
until this thread....I never even knew there was such a thing as "unschooling"

I send my kids to school for their structured learning, then when they are home and asking a hundred questions a day....its my job as a parent to educate them and answer their questions.

I do this i guess in an unschooled kind of way, i will answer their question, and encourage them to also look up more on the subject....thank god for smart phones, internet where ever we are!

some questions get a quick answer while others turn into a day long lesson....the most recent example is the question from my ds 10 "mom, whats the difference between debit and credit cards, they look the same?"
this was the perfect opportunity for my to teach "responsible" spending and money management ds 10 ate it all up!

i think every responsible and caring parent does this when their children go to school, it's just part of being a parent...

the difference with true unschooling though, is there is no structured learning, ever, unless the children ask for it. it's more a lifestyle than anything. children learn through their life experiences instead of books... the best way i can describe it is what you do when your children are not in school, we do all the time...

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-01-2011, 05:03 PM
I really didnt mean silly in a bad way.. its just silly to me.. I think that children need school "books and class rooms and all that stuff"

but if it works for you have at it,, but I feel that its not a proper educations.. and Im not talking just the stuff they learn inclass
There is so much a child learns at school out side of the classroom that is so important...


I am very happy for those of you that choose to teach this way Im glad it works for you.. I just think the kids are missing out

dubhreubel
09-01-2011, 05:19 PM
I really didnt mean silly in a bad way.. its just silly to me.. I think that children need school "books and class rooms and all that stuff"

but if it works for you have at it,, but I feel that its not a proper educations.. and Im not talking just the stuff they learn inclass
There is so much a child learns at school out side of the classroom that is so important...


I am very happy for those of you that choose to teach this way Im glad it works for you.. I just think the kids are missing out

I see this a lot, but I would love to hear what it is you're thinking of that kids are missing out on?

dragonfly76
09-01-2011, 06:57 PM
I really didnt mean silly in a bad way.. its just silly to me.. I think that children need school "books and class rooms and all that stuff"

but if it works for you have at it,, but I feel that its not a proper educations.. and Im not talking just the stuff they learn inclass
There is so much a child learns at school out side of the classroom that is so important...


I am very happy for those of you that choose to teach this way Im glad it works for you.. I just think the kids are missing out

hmmm... i'm curious what is taught at school outside of the classroom that you feel homeschooled children miss out on?

Karen
09-02-2011, 02:47 PM
I really didnt mean silly in a bad way.. its just silly to me.. I think that children need school "books and class rooms and all that stuff"

but if it works for you have at it,, but I feel that its not a proper educations.. and Im not talking just the stuff they learn inclass
There is so much a child learns at school out side of the classroom that is so important...


I am very happy for those of you that choose to teach this way Im glad it works for you.. I just think the kids are missing out

I'd be curious to know as well.
My oldest started in K and did part of grade 1 so I have some experience having kids in school. I can tell you without a doubt that homeschooling provides my kids with an incredibly rich education (academic and otherwise) and a wonderful community.

3little1s
09-02-2011, 08:05 PM
I really didnt mean silly in a bad way.. its just silly to me.. I think that children need school "books and class rooms and all that stuff"

but if it works for you have at it,, but I feel that its not a proper educations.. and Im not talking just the stuff they learn inclass
There is so much a child learns at school out side of the classroom that is so important...


I am very happy for those of you that choose to teach this way Im glad it works for you.. I just think the kids are missing out

I mean no harm by this, at all. Just another side of the coin.

Possibly, social interaction.
Kids learn a lot from how they play and how they interact with other kids, also from copying other kids. (Example....if your kid is a whiner, he may notice that is not the NORM and adjust)

My personal example....

My son was babysat at home by grandma from birth to school age, while I worked. No other kids! Then when time to go to school, it was really hard for him to get along with other kids and he found it really hard to adjust to the "structure" in school!

Personally, I won't be doing that again, my DD is going to a "structured" daycare in 2 months!

dubhreubel
09-02-2011, 08:10 PM
I mean no harm by this, at all. Just another side of the coin.

Possibly, social interaction.
Kids learn a lot from how they play and how they interact with other kids, also from copying other kids. (Example....if your kid is a whiner, he may notice that is not the NORM and adjust)

My personal example....

My son was babysat at home by grandma from birth to school age, while I worked. No other kids! Then when time to go to school, it was really hard for him to get along with other kids and he found it really hard to adjust to the "structure" in school!

Personally, I won't be doing that again, my DD is going to a "structured" daycare in 2 months!

But, why would you assume a homeschooled child doesn't have opportunities to be around other kids?

dragonfly76
09-02-2011, 08:13 PM
in all honesty i have to watch because it's very easy for my ds to get too much social interaction!!

Mookie
09-02-2011, 08:40 PM
The social thing is a common concern and I admit having the same concern before I started. However having done some reading, research and then the last 2 years of experience - we aren't finding it's a problem. But of course it depends on the family.
We have our kids in activities - dance, swimming, Sparks, kids group at church and there is definitely interaction there without us. Then we have playdates or get togethers or homeschool group outings or even family events with cousins.
Same as what dragonfly76 said above. I admit we struggle to get the 'schooling' in some days. ;)

There of course are pros and cons to doing either school or at home. Same as day care versus home care versus grandparent care. I struggle with routine/structure and my kids would definitely benefit from that from a school atmosphere, but the one on one learning weighed heavier for me in my decision (amongst many other reasons but this is an example).
This was me just throwing in my 2 cents. Not sure I'm answering anything....

Karen
09-02-2011, 10:41 PM
I mean no harm by this, at all. Just another side of the coin.

Possibly, social interaction.
Kids learn a lot from how they play and how they interact with other kids, also from copying other kids.


The running joke in homeschooling circles is that the hardest thing about socializing is that opportunities are too plentiful (rather that too rare).

I just counted up our scheduled weekly or biweekly activities for this fall. We have 11 that at least one if not more of my kids are involved in and they cover sports, academics, and extracuricular.

One of the really beautiful things we discovered about homeschooling was that it became the basis for a lovely community for our family. We have a 10 family co-op that has been running for 4 years now. The kids are together every Friday morning and because it is multi age and involves the parents, everyone is friends - kids and adults alike. Outside of that Friday time my kids see these kids at other co-ops, sports, lessons, play dates etc. Because they are together so much, and because there is a high ratio of adults to kids, the children truly learn how to live in healthy relationships with each other.

And they feel a real sense of the community around them. When my husband was in the hospital last year, it was these 10 families who swung into action and made sure that my kids made it to their programs including early morning hockey games, had playdates, took my kids pumpkin picking, put together halloween costumes, had new books and games, and then brought us meals for 2 weeks. I asked my kids how they felt during that time and they all said they were fine, because they knew that Molly, Joanne, Bonnie, Emma - all of them, would help them with whatever they needed.

I know we are incredibly blessed, but honestly I think you would have to work pretty darn hard to isolate your homeschooled kids in this area. There are tonnes of opportunities to play and learn together.

3little1s
09-03-2011, 12:10 AM
The running joke in homeschooling circles is that the hardest thing about socializing is that opportunities are too plentiful (rather that too rare).

I just counted up our scheduled weekly or biweekly activities for this fall. We have 11 that at least one if not more of my kids are involved in and they cover sports, academics, and extracuricular.

One of the really beautiful things we discovered about homeschooling was that it became the basis for a lovely community for our family. We have a 10 family co-op that has been running for 4 years now. The kids are together every Friday morning and because it is multi age and involves the parents, everyone is friends - kids and adults alike. Outside of that Friday time my kids see these kids at other co-ops, sports, lessons, play dates etc. Because they are together so much, and because there is a high ratio of adults to kids, the children truly learn how to live in healthy relationships with each other.

And they feel a real sense of the community around them. When my husband was in the hospital last year, it was these 10 families who swung into action and made sure that my kids made it to their programs including early morning hockey games, had playdates, took my kids pumpkin picking, put together halloween costumes, had new books and games, and then brought us meals for 2 weeks. I asked my kids how they felt during that time and they all said they were fine, because they knew that Molly, Joanne, Bonnie, Emma - all of them, would help them with whatever they needed.

I know we are incredibly blessed, but honestly I think you would have to work pretty darn hard to isolate your homeschooled kids in this area. There are tonnes of opportunities to play and learn together.

That sounds great! Good for you for setting that up!
I just worry for the kids of the "lazy" parents that do not do anything through the day, but sit around in pj's and tell their kid to watch TV...all the while saying they home school.

Believe me I know this is not the NORM, but unfortunately it does happen. I know someone like that that I believe homeschooling is just an excuse to get social assistance.... :( in that case, not in general!

mom2girls
09-03-2011, 12:15 AM
That sounds great! Good for you for setting that up!
I just worry for the kids of the "lazy" parents that do not do anything through the day, but sit around in pj's and tell their kid to watch TV...all the while saying they home school.

Believe me I know this is not the NORM, but unfortunately it does happen. I know someone like that that I believe homeschooling is just an excuse to get social assistance.... :( in that case, not in general!

I would be that lazy parent - which is exactly why I wouldn't homeschool my kids. I procrastinate, I'm fairly introverted, and really dislike putting myself into group situations. So for us, socialization would be an issue, unless I really forced myself to. I would probably do it if my kids weren't doing well in a traditional school environment, but at this point it doesn't seem to be an issue.

Karen
09-03-2011, 01:24 AM
That sounds great! Good for you for setting that up!
I just worry for the kids of the "lazy" parents that do not do anything through the day, but sit around in pj's and tell their kid to watch TV...all the while saying they home school.

Believe me I know this is not the NORM, but unfortunately it does happen. I know someone like that that I believe homeschooling is just an excuse to get social assistance.... :( in that case, not in general!

The overwhelmingly VAST majority of parents who undertake homeschooling do so mindfully, after a lot of research and deliberation, and are deeply deeply committed to doing the absolute best they can for their children's education. This isn't an easy path and very few "lazy" people choose it.

We also can't know what is truly happening in someone else's home from random interactions. During the worst of my husband's illness my kids watched entirely too much tv. Judging on just that time period, or the 2 weeks following our move, or the month prior to launching my business, you would think that all they do is hang out relatively unsupervised and watch tv or play dolls/lego. It's not representative of their general experience but it does happen.

I'm always struck by how often in discussions about homeschooling the very worst case scenarios are cited as situations that cause general concern. We shouldn't focus our discussions about the overall value of public education based on school shootings, extreme bullying, and sexually predacious teachers. The people who choose the public school option for their children, and the people who work so hard to educate our (collective) children deserve more respect that to have their thoughtful decisions and hard work be judged on the worst possible imagined scenario, even when we all know of situations that those scenarios have occurred. Likewise, homeschoolers deserve the same respect.

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-03-2011, 01:51 AM
Kids need to learn to do things with out there parents, learn from other kids, good and bad things

Karen
09-03-2011, 02:04 AM
Kids need to learn to do things with out there parents, learn from other kids, good and bad things

Homeschooled kids do learn from other kids and without their parents. I don't understand the assumption that we hide them away in the basement.

As for learning "bad things" - what sorts of things are you talking about?

3little1s
09-03-2011, 02:11 AM
I'm always struck by how often in discussions about homeschooling the very worst case scenarios are cited as situations that cause general concern. We shouldn't focus our discussions about the overall value of public education based on school shootings, extreme bullying, and sexually predators teachers. The people who choose the public school option for their children, and the people who work so hard to educate our (collective) children deserve more respect that to have their thoughtful decisions and hard work be judged on the worst possible imagined scenario, even when we all know of situations that those scenarios have occurred. Likewise, homeschoolers deserve the same respect.

Its just human nature to think of the worst case scenarios....in every issue!

As far as.....school shootings, extreme bullying, and sexual predators in teachers.....go, I agree these are also risks....but we risk these everyday by going out.....mall shootings.....extreme bullying in parks.....and sexual predators EVERYWHERE, but I have heard of way more sports coaches and priests then teachers!

of course that doesn't prevent me from going to church or signing my kids up for sports etc...or sending them to school, parks or mall....

Everyone has a different opinion on this issue, and as anything else in life the bad ones (homeschool parents) ruin it (the image) for the good ones.

or vise versa....the bad (schools) ruin it for the good ones.

I applaud you and all who do it WELL

And might I add.... this issue seems to be hotter than Politics and Religion combined...LOL:eek:

Karen
09-03-2011, 02:24 AM
I applaud you and all who do it WELL

And might I add.... this issue seems to be hotter than Politics and Religion combined...LOL:eek:

:) It's because it cuts to the very heart about what we believe is best for our children.

And because we are so often challenged on the decision with these "well I know this guy who..." scenarios that are 1) impossible to verify or refute and 2) which don't represent the general reality of homeschooling and so are essentially irrelevant.
I love talking about homeschooling because I am passionate about the education and experiences it affords my kids - well our whole family. I'm totally fine with those who say "it's not for us because ABC" because I understand - public schooling is not for us.
But I am always saddened, and often feel frustrated by people who denigrate the choices of others without really understanding what homeschooling truly encompasses.

Thank you so much for your kudos. On behalf of the vast majority of homeschoolers who do it well, we accept and appreciate them. :D

dragonfly76
09-03-2011, 11:28 AM
Kids need to learn to do things with out there parents, learn from other kids, good and bad things

what kinds of bad things are you talking about?

oh, and my ds has been doing things without dh and i since he was 5 :D

dragonfly76
09-03-2011, 11:40 AM
The overwhelmingly VAST majority of parents who undertake homeschooling do so mindfully, after a lot of research and deliberation, and are deeply deeply committed to doing the absolute best they can for their children's education. This isn't an easy path and very few "lazy" people choose it.

We also can't know what is truly happening in someone else's home from random interactions. During the worst of my husband's illness my kids watched entirely too much tv. Judging on just that time period, or the 2 weeks following our move, or the month prior to launching my business, you would think that all they do is hang out relatively unsupervised and watch tv or play dolls/lego. It's not representative of their general experience but it does happen.

I'm always struck by how often in discussions about homeschooling the very worst case scenarios are cited as situations that cause general concern. We shouldn't focus our discussions about the overall value of public education based on school shootings, extreme bullying, and sexually predacious teachers. The people who choose the public school option for their children, and the people who work so hard to educate our (collective) children deserve more respect that to have their thoughtful decisions and hard work be judged on the worst possible imagined scenario, even when we all know of situations that those scenarios have occurred. Likewise, homeschoolers deserve the same respect.

this. exactly.

dragonfly76
09-03-2011, 11:41 AM
:) It's because it cuts to the very heart about what we believe is best for our children.

And because we are so often challenged on the decision with these "well I know this guy who..." scenarios that are 1) impossible to verify or refute and 2) which don't represent the general reality of homeschooling and so are essentially irrelevant.
I love talking about homeschooling because I am passionate about the education and experiences it affords my kids - well our whole family. I'm totally fine with those who say "it's not for us because ABC" because I understand - public schooling is not for us.
But I am always saddened, and often feel frustrated by people who denigrate the choices of others without really understanding what homeschooling truly encompasses.

Thank you so much for your kudos. On behalf of the vast majority of homeschoolers who do it well, we accept and appreciate them. :D

and this.

teacher_mom
09-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Homeschooling can be a wonderful alternative. It isn't for all parents or all children. I will give some negative examples, as that is what I have to share. This is by no means representative. In fact, from what my colleagues have shared with me, this represent about 20% of kids who mainstream after homeschooling.

I have taught home schooled children who mainstreamed at some point in their high school careers. Two of those children were wildly unsuccessful. One had difficulty homeschooling and so his mom though that mainstreaming him in grade 9 would fix things. He was equally unmotivated and thus unsuccessful in both cases (BTW his sisters mainstreamed in grade 11 and 12 and went on to university very happily near the top of the class - including in math, my subject area).
Another refused to take notes or do homework and managed to barely pass the course. He dropped the subsequent course because he was convinced that his difficulties were my fault because I "didn't like him so I taught in a way that he couldn't learn" (according to both him and his mother). I was never sure how he expected to master math without practice, but I hope he found a successful path for himself. I think he took the rest of his courses distance ed (so self-directed) and passed.

So not all kids do well trying to mainstream after homeschool, but many do. In the same way, some kids who start mainstreamed suck at it. The one thing that I have noted about children (less than middle school age) that I have met that are home-schooled is that they are truly joyful. They seem to not carry as much stress with them. They know how to be independent, playful, and creative. To me, that is a valuable gift to give.

That being said, I am not the type of mom who can home school my children. I was not in any way meant to be a SAHM and now that I'm on a whole year of mat leave, I envy those getting ready to go back to work.

dubhreubel
09-05-2011, 12:03 AM
teacher_mom, I thought that was a very interesting post.

I am curious though, you would also see some mainstream schooled kids with those behaviors wouldn't you?

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-05-2011, 04:47 AM
I mean bad things, like calling names and other kids fighting ( not that your kids or any kid needs to be involved,) I think its a great wey for kids to learn how to stand up for eachother, and to learn acceptance..

I never said you keep them in the basement.. I never even thought that.. I think that some of you think that thous of us who dont agree think its worng... BY NO means do I think its wrong, like I have said sence my first comment.. GREAT THAT IT WORKS FOR YOU.. Im glad you have something that does... I personally feel that home school (and now unschooling) kids are missing out on one of the best parts of being a kid.. But I do not look down on anyone for the choices they make for there children.

teacher_mom
09-05-2011, 06:13 AM
teacher_mom, I thought that was a very interesting post.

I am curious though, you would also see some mainstream schooled kids with those behaviors wouldn't you?

Oh most definitely. There are about 20% of kids that I teach (teaching mostly applied and college level MATH courses) that fall into the category of passively aggressively disinterested. Most of them will pretend to take notes and work, but not really do anything.

What I wanted to say (but got cut off by my 6 week old who got hungry) was that kids are kids. Some kids do great in one system, some do great in the other, many will do great in both (I would have been one of those kids), and a small few don't do well in either.

dubhreubel
09-05-2011, 11:31 AM
Oh most definitely. There are about 20% of kids that I teach (teaching mostly applied and college level MATH courses) that fall into the category of passively aggressively disinterested. Most of them will pretend to take notes and work, but not really do anything.

What I wanted to say (but got cut off by my 6 week old who got hungry) was that kids are kids. Some kids do great in one system, some do great in the other, many will do great in both (I would have been one of those kids), and a small few don't do well in either.

Awww, squishy babies :D

I definitely like the perspective you've added, I'm not all that surprised that the academic results are similar in your experience.

tinkandnuggetsmom, Do you really think school is the only place that stuff happens? Why?

Really though, if my kid or any other kid doesn't need to be involved, why would you say it's an important experience? Obviously if it happens, somebody has to be involved.

TBH, what I'm getting from your post is "you're depriving your children of the best parts of being a kid... but I'm not judging" but I hope I'm getting your tone wrong or something.

KitchenerMom
09-05-2011, 11:59 AM
The only thing that concerns me about Homeschooling is the lack of monitoring it receives. I could be wrong because I know very little.. I just know that if a kid isnt succeeding in school, there is a wide variety of programs and teaching assistants that can be accessed. Teachers are held to a standard. If people have problems with a teacher.. there is the principal, Superintendent that can be contacted..
Teachers are also trained to look for abuse with the kids. And call family and children services accordingly.

With homeschooling.. what concerns me are NOT the parents who do it right. But the 20% who dont. Your right we dont know what goes on in their home. We have no idea! That's what scares me. How will we know if one of these kids are suffering. How do we know instead of week here or there... it's all year they spend watching tv? or worse actually locked in a basement!? I know its a bit extreme to talk like that but honestly thats what goes through my head.

For those who do it right.. Its awesome.. it's the ones who do it wrong that its very scary.

For the homeschooling parents.. when was the last time someone came and assessed your child.. to see what grade level they are currently at?

Idk I know there are good kids and bad kids in both homeschooling and public school.. there is also good parents and bad parents in both as well... But with school.. there is essentially someone to answer to.. With homeschooling it seems that people who wanted to keep a secret could.

dragonfly76
09-05-2011, 12:16 PM
I mean bad things, like calling names and other kids fighting ( not that your kids or any kid needs to be involved,) I think its a great wey for kids to learn how to stand up for eachother, and to learn acceptance..

I never said you keep them in the basement.. I never even thought that.. I think that some of you think that thous of us who dont agree think its worng... BY NO means do I think its wrong, like I have said sence my first comment.. GREAT THAT IT WORKS FOR YOU.. Im glad you have something that does... I personally feel that home school (and now unschooling) kids are missing out on one of the best parts of being a kid.. But I do not look down on anyone for the choices they make for there children.

well, i can tell you first hand children don't need to go to school to experience bad things like bullying, exclusion, teasing, name calling. i know because my ds has experienced it all and has never been to school.

on the other hand, he learned to stand up for himself and others from the adults in his life. he also learned acceptance from the adults in his life.

i am confused as to how these things can be one of the best parts about being a kid. because of these things my ds has come in crying after being outside only a moment, and been afraid to go outside...

dragonfly76
09-05-2011, 12:50 PM
The only thing that concerns me about Homeschooling is the lack of monitoring it receives. I could be wrong because I know very little.. I just know that if a kid isnt succeeding in school, there is a wide variety of programs and teaching assistants that can be accessed. Teachers are held to a standard. If people have problems with a teacher.. there is the principal, Superintendent that can be contacted..
Teachers are also trained to look for abuse with the kids. And call family and children services accordingly.

With homeschooling.. what concerns me are NOT the parents who do it right. But the 20% who dont. Your right we dont know what goes on in their home. We have no idea! That's what scares me. How will we know if one of these kids are suffering. How do we know instead of week here or there... it's all year they spend watching tv? or worse actually locked in a basement!? I know its a bit extreme to talk like that but honestly thats what goes through my head.

For those who do it right.. Its awesome.. it's the ones who do it wrong that its very scary.

For the homeschooling parents.. when was the last time someone came and assessed your child.. to see what grade level they are currently at?

Idk I know there are good kids and bad kids in both homeschooling and public school.. there is also good parents and bad parents in both as well... But with school.. there is essentially someone to answer to.. With homeschooling it seems that people who wanted to keep a secret could.

i can see the point you are making...

my ds has never been assessed academically. in ontario the only thing the board can do is collect names and note that the named children are excused. they can also launch investigations if there is a reason to feel the children are not getting satisfactory education...

i think, though, that assessments would be far too costly and far to difficult to implement... then the qestion becomes how would they be done exactly, and who would pay for them? sure, they could require parents to administer them, as well as keep portfolios of the children's output, but then there is again the problem of not really knowing how much the parents are involved in completing them... much the same way that teachers can't be sure how much the parents were involved with homework... and then, what happens if the children are found to be 'behind'?


i know that many homeschoolers, us included, chose homeschooling because the children are able to work at their own pace, and in their own way, with no worry about being 'behind' or 'ahead', no grade levels, no thought to where they 'should' be by any given time...

i think the bad ones do exsist, but they would exisit no matter what...

KitchenerMom
09-05-2011, 01:28 PM
i can see the point you are making...

my ds has never been assessed academically. in ontario the only thing the board can do is collect names and note that the named children are excused. they can also launch investigations if there is a reason to feel the children are not getting satisfactory education...

i think, though, that assessments would be far too costly and far to difficult to implement... then the qestion becomes how would they be done exactly, and who would pay for them? sure, they could require parents to administer them, as well as keep portfolios of the children's output, but then there is again the problem of not really knowing how much the parents are involved in completing them... much the same way that teachers can't be sure how much the parents were involved with homework... and then, what happens if the children are found to be 'behind'?


i know that many homeschoolers, us included, chose homeschooling because the children are able to work at their own pace, and in their own way, with no worry about being 'behind' or 'ahead', no grade levels, no thought to where they 'should' be by any given time...

i think the bad ones do exsist, but they would exisit no matter what...


Parents of home schooled children can voluntarily sign their kids up for the grade 3, 6 and 9 testing.

I like your concept of working at their own pace. And I read your discussions you have regarding what your child is into and what you do with him at home.. Its quite impressive. I envy that you are able to do these things with your child.

I do agree that these bad ones exist no matter what.. But I wonder if there is a way to weed them out. At least with public school.. abuse and neglect can be detected.

I think there needs to be something implemented in an attempt at least. What that is, Im not sure.

dragonfly76
09-05-2011, 01:39 PM
i agree with you that it would be nice to be able to weed the abuse and neglect out as easily with homeschooling as in schools...

i don't think i'd have an issue with asessments, provided they were done in such a way that took into account the different ways of doing things... in manitoba parents fill out assessment forms twice a year, i think ontario is one of the few who requires nothing more than notification...

also, i know we can choose to have ds take the EQAO tests, and the literacy test... (we chose not to last year for grade 3 and doubt we will have ds do the grade 6 test either...) aren't they somewhat optional to schooled children as well, in that parents can have them exempted?

KitchenerMom
09-05-2011, 01:43 PM
i agree with you that it would be nice to be able to weed the abuse and neglect out as easily with homeschooling as in schools...

i don't think i'd have an issue with asessments, provided they were done in such a way that took into account the different ways of doing things... in manitoba parents fill out assessment forms twice a year, i think ontario is one of the few who requires nothing more than notification...

also, i know we can choose to have ds take the EQAO tests, and the literacy test... (we chose not to last year for grade 3 and doubt we will have ds do the grade 6 test either...) aren't they somewhat optional to schooled children as well, in that parents can have them exempted?

Im not sure if they are... My daughter took them last year and we didnt even get the results.. The only paperwork we got on the testing was the dates on the calendar and some study notes sent home.. So if you can exempt your children from taking it,, they dont make it public knowledge.

teacher_mom
09-05-2011, 01:49 PM
the grade 3, 6 and 9 testing is garbage anyway and a poor measure of an individual student's abilities, and don't get me started on the grade 10 literacy test.

As for abuse, it doesn't get caught all that often in the public school either. It is very sad.

The idea of being "behind" isn't one that the education system worries about when kids are homeschooled. As long as they are getting an "education" they won't launch an investigation (which means never). Up in Elmira, there are a couple groups of mennonites. One particular group often removes their children from school at some point between grade 7 and high school. Boys start apprenticeships or working the farms and girls start learning the skills of running a home and there is no additional traditional schooling. The school board has set up an additional segregated school at the legion there to encourage additional schooling (some parents do allow their children to attend). Other than that, there is really nothing they can do (or choose to do).

KitchenerMom
09-05-2011, 02:05 PM
As for abuse, it doesn't get caught all that often in the public school either. It is very sad.


I beg to differ on that one.. I think there are cases of it missed.. But There is a VERY high chance of it being caught, compared to an unmonitored situation.

Karen
09-05-2011, 04:51 PM
I mean bad things, like calling names and other kids fighting ( not that your kids or any kid needs to be involved,) I think its a great wey for kids to learn how to stand up for eachother, and to learn acceptance..

I never said you keep them in the basement.. I never even thought that.. I think that some of you think that thous of us who dont agree think its worng... BY NO means do I think its wrong, like I have said sence my first comment.. GREAT THAT IT WORKS FOR YOU.. Im glad you have something that does... I personally feel that home school (and now unschooling) kids are missing out on one of the best parts of being a kid.. But I do not look down on anyone for the choices they make for there children.

The idea that children need to experience abuse or violence in order to learn that they shouldn't treat each other abusively or violently is one that never makes sense to me. And I can't quite fathom how that is one of the best parts of childhood.

My philosophy is that we need to teach children how to be respectful, nurture their inherent kindness from the beginning, and put them in healthy environments where they don't have to "fend for themselves" or deal with bullying, abuse or violence. If they learn first how to respond with kindness, acceptance and compassion, they learn what feels right and that becomes how they treat others as they move into the world. The developmental evidence suggests that those who are treated poorly often treat others poorly because they come from a place of hurt. What people learn from being bullied is rarely compassion - not unless they have some wonderful adults helping them navigate that situation. One of the books that cemented the idea that homeschooling was right for our family was Hold on to your kids by Gordon Neufeld. I highly recommend it.

I am curious though - have you ever knowingly encounter homeschooled kids? Because I get the sense your opinions aren't coming from a place of experience - which is fine but they aren't meshing at all with my reality as a homeschooler.

Karen
09-05-2011, 05:19 PM
The only thing that concerns me about Homeschooling is the lack of monitoring it receives. I could be wrong because I know very little.. I just know that if a kid isnt succeeding in school, there is a wide variety of programs and teaching assistants that can be accessed. Teachers are held to a standard. If people have problems with a teacher.. there is the principal, Superintendent that can be contacted..
Teachers are also trained to look for abuse with the kids. And call family and children services accordingly.

With homeschooling.. what concerns me are NOT the parents who do it right. But the 20% who dont. Your right we dont know what goes on in their home. We have no idea! That's what scares me. How will we know if one of these kids are suffering. How do we know instead of week here or there... it's all year they spend watching tv? or worse actually locked in a basement!? I know its a bit extreme to talk like that but honestly thats what goes through my head.

For those who do it right.. Its awesome.. it's the ones who do it wrong that its very scary.

For the homeschooling parents.. when was the last time someone came and assessed your child.. to see what grade level they are currently at?

Idk I know there are good kids and bad kids in both homeschooling and public school.. there is also good parents and bad parents in both as well... But with school.. there is essentially someone to answer to.. With homeschooling it seems that people who wanted to keep a secret could.

I agree with some of your points. I have to say though that the most abusive situation my son was ever in was at the hands of a teacher. The week before I removed my son from school I physically stepped in between him and his teacher as he was cowering in the corner while she yelled at him in a hallway - within site and earshot of not fewer than 6 other teachers. His crime (at the age of 6)? Not wanting to go to her class. And the school, principal and superintendent did nothing. 4 out of 21 kids were removed from her class by Christmas and other parents set up an informal phone chain and a volunteer schedule to ensure she was almost never alone with their children.

In our IEP meeting where she was present she went on a rant that was, well, somewhat unbelievable about my parenting skills, how stupid my son is (he's tested as gifted which was why we were having the IEP). The principal who also attended said nothing.
Our psychologist said she had never seen anything like it. The woman who chaired the IEP meeting stepped in and stopped her, apologized to us and rubberstamped the IEP. She called me later that night to apologize again and when I told her we were planning on homeschooling she said she could see why and that she was issuing a formal report to the board. This teacher taught for another 6 years after that incident. And my friends whose kids went through that school and had that teacher said she hadn't changed.

So while true child abuse among homeschoolers is relatively rare, I can understand that it is sometimes unfortunately used as a cover. I would venture however there are proportionately fewer cases of abuse in homeschooled families than in non-homeschooling families.

Academic oversight is another one that I am on the fence about. With oversight comes prescribed standards. If they were limited to skills with allowances for learning differences etc, I could see that being more acceptable. I don't however follow the Ontario curriculum so if you tested my kids they may know a lot of history - but perhaps not much about the history topics they are supposed to cover in gr3 for example.
In many studies, homeschoolers operate at or above grade level (the methodology for those studies is somewhat sketchy - but so is the ps testing-lol)

I have two kids operating above grade level across the board, and two who have learning differences and health challenges which means that they struggle to learn certain things. When I think about the assessment component I wonder what would happen to us as a homeschooling family with my two who struggle with some skills. Would the system want to put them in a classroom - because that frankly would be the worst place to address their particular needs. Would they want to keep tabs on my kids? Why - to what end? Would they provide the same kind of one on one supports, individualized education plans and professional supports I already do? Not likely.

For me it comes back to the worst case scenario situation being used as the standard for homeschoolers while schools get somewhat of a free pass.
I know plenty of kids in the school system who don't get the educational supports they need. I know of more than one situation where the school has turned a blind eye to family abuse problems. And I could give you a list as long as my arm (or longer) where they school is or perpetuates unheathly situations for children.
The unfortunate reality is that some of this stuff just is. The school system can't meet every need for every kid. Just as homeschooling can't meet every need for every kid. And trying to put measurements in place to achieve that, may put other things at risk in either situation.
It's part of why we need to have communities around our kids - so that neither the school nor homeschooling parents need to struggle alone.
OK gotta go can peaches
interesting discussion everyone.
Karen

dragonfly76
09-05-2011, 06:05 PM
The idea that children need to experience abuse or violence in order to learn that they shouldn't treat each other abusively or violently is one that never makes sense to me. And I can't quite fathom how that is one of the best parts of childhood.

My philosophy is that we need to teach children how to be respectful, nurture their inherent kindness from the beginning, and put them in healthy environments where they don't have to "fend for themselves" or deal with bullying, abuse or violence. If they learn first how to respond with kindness, acceptance and compassion, they learn what feels right and that becomes how they treat others as they move into the world. The developmental evidence suggests that those who are treated poorly often treat others poorly because they come from a place of hurt. What people learn from being bullied is rarely compassion - not unless they have some wonderful adults helping them navigate that situation. One of the books that cemented the idea that homeschooling was right for our family was Hold on to your kids by Gordon Neufeld. I highly recommend it.

I am curious though - have you ever knowingly encounter homeschooled kids? Because I get the sense your opinions aren't coming from a place of experience - which is fine but they aren't meshing at all with my reality as a homeschooler.

i LOVE hold on to your kids!!!

and i completely agree with you about what people learn from bullying. from being bullied my son learned to hate himself. he learned to hurt others in ways he was hurt. he learned to fear leaving the house. he learned to follow what the bully wanted. he learned so many things, but he did NOT learn compassion or how to treat others with respect. those he learned from the adults in his life.

and i certainly wasn't thinking he was experiencing one of the best parts of childhood as i was sitting up with him at night as he's sobbing because he wants to play outside but is afraid to leave the house because of what might happen, even if i'm sitting right there supervising.

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-05-2011, 11:21 PM
I am curious though - have you ever knowingly encounter homeschooled kids? Because I get the sense your opinions aren't coming from a place of experience - which is fine but they aren't meshing at all with my reality as a homeschooler.[/QUOTE]

I have meet many homeschooled kids.. And all the ones I have meet did not behave, were not socialize properly, there education level was not up to par..

like I have said I find unschool interesting.. I had never heard of it before.. My personal option is it is not the best thing for most children...

AGAIN I am glad it works for those of you that are doing it

I have not attacked any one about this.. I have said before and I will say again.. Everyone has the right to raise there kids they way that want. As long as there not breaking the law or hurting the child/ren... then have fun with it

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-05-2011, 11:34 PM
i LOVE hold on to your kids!!!

and i completely agree with you about what people learn from bullying. from being bullied my son learned to hate himself. he learned to hurt others in ways he was hurt. he learned to fear leaving the house. he learned to follow what the bully wanted. he learned so many things, but he did NOT learn compassion or how to treat others with respect. those he learned from the adults in his life.

and i certainly wasn't thinking he was experiencing one of the best parts of childhood as i was sitting up with him at night as he's sobbing because he wants to play outside but is afraid to leave the house because of what might happen, even if i'm sitting right there supervising.


see this is how I learned it was wrong and learned compassion.. I went crying to my mom once about a bully and never again.. I stood up for my self and others from a very young age.. Never having to fight back, just by showing I undersood that they didnt have the worlds to express why they were angry..

For me this was one of the best parts of my childhood

Karen
09-06-2011, 12:54 AM
I have meet many homeschooled kids.. And all the ones I have meet did not behave, were not socialize properly, there education level was not up to par..

like I have said I find unschool interesting.. I had never heard of it before.. My personal option is it is not the best thing for most children...

AGAIN I am glad it works for those of you that are doing it

I have not attacked any one about this.. I have said before and I will say again.. Everyone has the right to raise there kids they way that want. As long as there not breaking the law or hurting the child/ren... then have fun with it

I'm sorry your experience with every homeschooled child you have encountered has been so poor. I wish you could meet our kids and their homeschooled friends. They are funny, smart, kind, considerate, well mannered, interesting and well spoken.
They are also regular kids - meaning that they are still learning to make their way in the world.

You are right that you haven't attacked anyone specifically but I get the same vibe from the tone of your posts as Steph did. Your choice of words (calling anyone's decision silly) and the assertion that all homeschoolers are by definition short changing our children come across as dismissive. Your assertion that we all have the right to raise our kids based on what we believe to be best, sadly rings a bit hollow.

It's unfortunate because homeschooling is the fastest growing educational option. Any many of the elements that the most progressive teachers work for in schools (smaller class sizes, individual education approaches building on strengths, emergent or place-based curriculum, high parental commitment) are things that are inherent in homeschooling. I think the idea deserves thoughtful, considered and open-minded discussion.

Thanks ladies - I'm off to can more peaches.
Have a good night everyone.

Karen

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 01:01 AM
You are right that you haven't attacked anyone specifically but I get the same vibe from the tone of your posts as Steph did. Your choice of words (calling anyone's decision silly) and the assertion that all homeschoolers are by definition short changing our children come across as dismissive. Your assertion that we all have the right to raise our kids based on what we believe to be best, sadly rings a bit hollow.

to correct you I called unschooling silly, not homeschooling.. as I have learned in this it is 2 different things

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 01:03 AM
I just wanna clarify that I used the world silly for lack of a better word

Prid5
09-06-2011, 01:25 AM
I just wanna clarify that I used the world silly for lack of a better word

I think you should try to find a better word next time, maybe?

Google Define Silly:
Main Entry: silly
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: absurd, giddy, foolish
Synonyms: asinine, balmy, brainless, childish, crazy, dippy, dizzy*, empty, empty-headed, fatuous, featherbrained, flighty, foolhardy, frivolous, harebrained, idiotic, ignorant, illogical, immature, imprudent, inane, inappropriate, inconsistent, irrational, irresponsible, ludicrous, meaningless, muddle-headed, nitwitted, nonsensical, pointless, preposterous, puerile, ridiculous, senseless, sheepheaded, simple, simpleminded, stupid, unintelligent, unreasonable, unwise, vacuous, witless

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 01:41 AM
Ok then silly was the right word for me to use at the time I used it because at first read that was what I meant..
But after reading what everyone is saying about unschooling I dont find it silly..
I still dont think its the right choice for most kids but Im sure there are many out there it would work great for

Karen
09-06-2011, 02:05 AM
I just wanna clarify that I used the world silly for lack of a better word


Ok then silly was the right word for me to use at the time I used it because at first read that was what I meant..


Really?
Because I have 4 poorly educated, and unsocialized homeschooled/unschooled children who could find a more articulate and compassionate way to communicate that they find something perplexing, particularly something as important as someone's choices in parenting. I also teach them to try to understand things before they make judgements. Shame about their lack of education.

;)

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 02:07 AM
Really?
Because I have 4 poorly educated, and unsocialized homeschooled/unschooled children who could find a more articulate and compassionate way to communicate that they find something perplexing, particularly something as important as someone's choices in parenting. I also teach them to try to understand things before they make judgements. Shame about their lack of education.

;)

very nice of you to leave the part out where I said I didnt think it was silly anymore

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 02:22 AM
I wasnt putting down anyones parenting, it was the idea of unschooling that was silly, because I had never hear of anything like it before.. I have read ever post and taken everything in. NEVER did I said it was a bad choice I said I didnt agree and tried to express why so that it could be a conversation, that may educate me more about it. but it has turned into an attack on me and my opinion (even thought they are just that mine) I have tried to understand where unschooling and homeschooling parents are coming from.. I have said on all my post I am glad it works for those of you that do it.. But I am aloud my opinion, I have said that I didnt mean to offend anyone or insult them never was that my intention.

I am sorry if people have gotten that from my post..

Karen
09-06-2011, 03:04 AM
very nice of you to leave the part out where I said I didnt think it was silly anymore


I'm glad you don't think it's silly anymore.
I'm still not clear why you ever did though.


I wasnt putting down anyones parenting, it was the idea of unschooling that was silly, because I had never hear of anything like it before.. I have read ever post and taken everything in. NEVER did I said it was a bad choice I said I didnt agree and tried to express why so that it could be a conversation, that may educate me more about it. but it has turned into an attack on me and my opinion (even thought they are just that mine) I have tried to understand where unschooling and homeschooling parents are coming from.. I have said on all my post I am glad it works for those of you that do it.. But I am aloud my opinion, I have said that I didnt mean to offend anyone or insult them never was that my intention.

I'm sorry you feel attacked - truly I am.
But to be fair you stated numerous times that my children (and those of other homeschoolers and unschoolers posting in this thread) are missing out on the best parts of childhood (dealing with bullies?) and that something we believe in deeply and something that is working for our kids is a substandard form of education. Given that you know next to nothing about my particular kids, or the quality of their education, it comes across as putting down the very considered choices that I make as a parent and does suggest you think I am making a poor choice.

You also didn't ask questions about homeschooling or unschooling so it didn't appear that you were interested in learning more.

Discussion forums are difficult medium for a discussion, which is why word choice and clarifying are so important if we want true dialogue. I am sure that you know other ways, rather than using the word silly, to describe something that you don't know much about or don't understand.

I hope you will continue to learn more about homeschooling and unschooling. I happen to think it's a pretty great way to educate our children.

Have a good night
Karen

tinkandnuggetsmom
09-06-2011, 03:40 AM
I didnt way bullying was one of the best parts of childhood. I said that I feel by not going to school they were missing out on the best part of childhood..(good and bad) I was asked what was a bad part I said bullying... and when I first made the comment silly it wasnt at anything you had said. I have in no way insulted you, your children or they way you learn. and I have not asked questions because there was no need to I was reading what was said and every time I was wondering something it was answered before I had to ask..

Like I said for me beginning I did not mean silly in an offensives way.. I am sorry you have found the need to take the word silly by its dictionary definition and not as a commentt a little lighter then that specially sense I said from comment one I found it interesting..

I do think it may be a poor choice for some children, But I did read the link you posted for me about your children and by no means do I think you are not doing what you feel is right for your children.. But I also think that you have taken a conversation way to personal, that was not meant to be personal.

KitchenerMom
09-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Really?
Because I have 4 poorly educated, and unsocialized homeschooled/unschooled children who could find a more articulate and compassionate way to communicate that they find something perplexing, particularly something as important as someone's choices in parenting. I also teach them to try to understand things before they make judgements. Shame about their lack of education.

;)

Just because people are honest about their opinions dosnt mean their attacking you ;)

This is a place where we get together with a wide variety of people and discuss and help to understand other ways of doing things. I myself have had my eyes open to things that I never heard of before. Ive had alot of my views changed by this.

Take this as an opportunity to educate people on unschooling. Not attack people who are honest about their thoughts and are trying to understand it. :o

dragonfly76
09-06-2011, 12:43 PM
one comment about the word 'silly'...

i, the mom of a lifelong unschooler, originally thought unschooling was 'silly' (yes, assinine, absurd, foolish et al) before i knew anything about it.

i believe for me the reason was going through the school system and being conditioned for years to believe children need teachers to learn. even while researching homeschooling i thought it would look more like school at home than anything else, i had visions of me being teacher and us sitting around the table with our workbooks and textbooks, etc...

ds was what blew that out of the water, and by the time he was 3 i'd been able to let go of my ideas and no longer thought unschooling was 'silly'...

Karen
09-06-2011, 12:59 PM
Just because people are honest about their opinions dosnt mean their attacking you ;)

This is a place where we get together with a wide variety of people and discuss and help to understand other ways of doing things. I myself have had my eyes open to things that I never heard of before. Ive had alot of my views changed by this.

Take this as an opportunity to educate people on unschooling. Not attack people who are honest about their thoughts and are trying to understand it. :o

I am a bit confused by your post.
I have taken the time in this thread and others to try to educate others about how homeschooling and unschooling works for our family.
I, and others, have tried, without much success, to find out why tinkandnuggetsmom has such concerns about unschooling so I/we could answer her questions. She has chosen not to ask any.
I haven't attacked her. I have suggested that its not the best approach to come into a thread on a topic one knows little-to-nothing about and call the concept silly. And I don't know that I believe that word choice was because there was a lack of better alternatives.
I also don't feel attacked by her. I'm long past caring what an anonymous poster on a discussion board who knows nothing of me or my family thinks of my parenting choices. I do think the concept is worth education others about - which is what I have tried to do.
I'm sorry my post offended you. It was meant in jest (which is why I included the wink).
I'm off to a beach party with my kids.
Have a great day everyone.
Karen

angelkisses660
04-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Hi
I'm new to this site as well as homeschooling and the kw area, my kids were all in school till just this Feb when we moved and I didnt want to put them into a big town school, just wondering if there was any get togethers, my kids are missing all their friends and finding it hard for homeschool when they don't know anyone in this area, I have 3 boys aged 9, 10 and 11.

Tammymom
04-27-2012, 11:53 PM
I know the Cambridge Butterfly conservatory has some programs offered for homeschooling parents/kids. Attending one may be a way to meet up with some other homeschooling families in the community. http://www.cambridgebutterfly.com/

dubhreubel
04-28-2012, 12:07 AM
There are homeschooling groups on yahoo groups :)

kyla
05-02-2012, 12:43 PM
You can join the Christian Cambridge Homeschool Association as well. They are a very well organized group.